Minister of Foreign Affairs Nikos Dendias’ interview with newspaper “Vradyni tis Kyriakis” and journalist Kostas Melissopoulos (06.11.2021)

JOURNALIST: Minister, Zoran Zaev’s resignation sent shock waves through North Macedonia. Given the strengthening of VMRO and the weakening of those in the neighbouring country who worked for the Prespa Agreement, what can this development mean for Greece and the future of the Agreement?

N. DENDIAS: Mr. Melissopoulos, allow me to make a general observation. In democratic societies, governments come and go, but states and the obligations they undertake remain. New Democracy did not vote in favour of the Prespa Agreement and had strong objections to specific points, for which it warned of the consequences in the most appropriate institutional manner, in the Greek Parliament. However, after its ratification, as well as from the first moment Nea Dimokratia’s government took office, it made no secret of the fact that it will implement this agreement.

I want to be clear. During my contacts with officials from this country – and I have had many of them in recent months – the two main issues raised by my interlocutors are the European perspective of our neighbouring country and the way Greece can help in this direction, as well as strengthening bilateral ties in all fields, such as Economy, Investment, Energy, Transport and Defence. The surveillance of the airspace of our neighbouring country by our Air Force is already a tangible proof of the mutual benefit that can be drawn.

For my part, I reiterated the need for the full, consistent and in good faith implementation of the Prespa Agreement. But I also pointed out something else. Our country can become, under certain conditions, North Macedonia’s best friend in the future. The stability and prosperity of this country is also in our interest. After all, Greece has no claims whatsoever from its northern neighbour.

Of course, it’s not our place to comment on the internal affairs of North Macedonia. We look forward to continuing cooperation in all areas with whatever government emerges from internal processes.

JOURNALIST: There are quite a few analysts who believe that now, after the weakening of the main architects of the Prespa Agreement in North Macedonia, Ankara is presented with the exceptional opportunity to gain vital space in our neighbourhood. Would you like to send a message to the leaders of North Macedonia?

N. DENDIAS: It is the same message that we consistently send to North Macedonia, to the other countries in the region, but also to all our international interlocutors, especially our partners in the EU: The future of the Western Balkans lies in the EU.

It is the European perspective and the accession process itself that will ensure stability, economic growth, prosperity, and democratic reforms for the countries and peoples of the region.

This is the only way for the region to move forward. Of course, we are aware that at the same time there are other powers active in the region, other than European ones, seeking to move the Western Balkans away from Europe by offering so-called development aid, military cooperation, even cooperation in the field of education and indeed through institutions which bear more relation to the Muslim Brotherhood and little or no relation to a modern European educational framework. Powers that invoke some supposedly common historical, cultural and religious traditions with the countries and peoples of the region, but in essence promote extreme ideologies and a destabilizing agenda. Therefore, we call not only on North Macedonia, but also on the whole of the Western Balkans, to remain committed to their European path and to turn their backs on the forces of isolation and destabilization.

And we also call on the EU to maintain the momentum of the enlargement process, so as to prevent the countries of the region from returning to their “Balkan past”.

JOURNALIST: Mr. Dendias, you have met with your Serbian and Slovenian counterparts in recent days, and you have had contacts with African officials during your trip to Rwanda. What is your assessment after all these contacts? Are you more optimistic than before about the position of our country in the wider region?

N. DENDIAS: In my capacity as Foreign Minister, I have frequent meetings with traditional friends and partners of the country, such as the two meetings you mentioned with my counterparts from Serbia and Slovenia, which currently holds the six-month Presidency of the EU Council.

Through such meetings, we have the chance to discuss our bilateral relations, on the one hand, and issues of common interest, on the other. In this instance, special emphasis was placed on the discussion on the Western Balkans and the way we can assist their European perspective.

At the same time – and I would like to stress this – in the last two years Greece has been implementing a strategy of strengthening its relations with a number of countries, with many of which, like the countries of the African continent, relations were not so strong.

This is the background to my visit to Rwanda, where I had the opportunity to discuss with my counterpart, as well as with a number of other officials, on expanding our relations with this country, as well as on the possibilities for cooperation and investment initiatives.

I do hope that other such visits to countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America will follow soon, as far as the pandemic allows. The goal of all these visits and meetings is to open communication channels, both for building solid relations at the political and economic level and for addressing common problems, such as the pandemic, Climate Change or the Refugee-Migration Issue.

Allow me here to point out our country’s contribution to the global effort to tackle the pandemic, through the donation of vaccines to various African countries such as Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt, among others. In this way, we establish, in the eyes of the international community, Greece as a bridge between Europe, Asia and Africa and as a reliable partner in the effort to ensure peace, stability, security and prosperity in our wider region.

JOURNALIST: Our country, through you, Minister, has signed two important agreements with the United States and France. Did these Agreements shift the US and French stance on the Southeastern Mediterranean and the Aegean?

Also on Monday, as far as I know, you will travel to Italy to conclude the Agreement between Athens and Rome on the EEZ. What does this mean for our country in practical terms?

N. DENDIAS: Greece is part of the shifts taking place. During the past two years, under the Mitsotakis government, our country has a say in regional developments, as evidenced by the invitation to attend the Conference on Libya convened by President Macron. Already since 2019, Greece has made systematic efforts to balance and contain Turkish aggression, taking the appropriate course of action in its region and coming close to states that are important for the promotion of Greek interests. The defence agreements with France and the USA act as multipliers of the country’s defence and political power in the international environment, and will be harnessed appropriately. The countries which we signed the agreements with strongly support Greece and have every interest in a strong and stable Greece. And of course, you should not ignore the defence agreement with the United Arab Emirates. All this, alongside the strength of the Armed Forces, constitute the best guarantee.

In addition, the Agreements are the recognition of the strategic and stabilizing role that Greece plays in the region extending from the Balkans to the Eastern Mediterranean.

It is up to our country to make good use of these Agreements, which will render Greece more powerful in the face of revisionist forces, always keeping in mind that the geopolitical environment is particularly volatile and that balance between the “players” is in constant flux. What remains stable for us, however, and constitutes the basis on which we always act, is that as far as our national sovereignty and Greece’s territorial integrity are concerned, no kind of compromise or retreat are allowed. We will continue to safeguard our interests with full respect for International Law, and in particular the Law of the Sea, serving as our compass.

JOURNALIST: Our relations with Turkey have been on the razor’s edge in recent years. In a recent speech of yours in London, you described Turkey as a “regional spoiler” trying to “revive the neo-Ottoman ghosts”. Anyone having elementary knowledge of history realizes the seriousness of what you said. In this light, are there any prospects for normalization, or the only condition required is Greece’s consent to Turkey’s demands?

N. DENDIAS: Unfortunately, as we have repeatedly stressed to our international partners, -and this has now come to the direct notice of the entire international community- Turkey’s policy nowadays has nothing to do with the policy of getting closer to Europe. Through its neo-Ottoman expansionist policy, it has managed to have problems with almost all the states in its immediate neighbourhood. Turkish actions are completely unacceptable, they run contrary to every notion of International Law and common sense. One of the most typical examples among many others was Turkey’s harassment, last September, of the “Nautical Geo” research vessel in Greece’s demarcated Exclusive Economic Zone, 10 nautical miles east of Crete, with the assertion that this area belongs to the Turkish continental shelf.

Prospects for normalizing our relations with Turkey would exist on the condition that Turkey will respect international law, stop threatening our country with war if it exercised its legal rights, and stop violating fundamental provisions of the United Nations Charter. Despite the climate of tension that Turkey continues to cultivate both in the field and in terms of rhetoric, we consider it appropriate to maintain open channels of communication with the neighbor. We stand for, however, an understanding with Turkey on the basis of International Law and the Law of the Sea, always in accordance with the full protection of our sovereignty and our sovereign rights.

It is also worth emphasizing, once again, that Greece does not seek to exclude Turkey from the regional cooperation schemes, provided of course that Turkey fulfills the terms and conditions of participation in these schemes. We know, after all, that a significant part of Turkish society is still looking forward to a European perspective. However, Greece’s “consent” to absurd neo-Ottoman demands is unthinkable.

JOURNALIST: In the light of what has taken place between Athens and Ankara, are you optimistic that there may be further exploratory talks with Turkey, on the same basis as in previous years, with the prospect of having recourse to The Hague?

N. DENDIAS: The Greek government has sought the resumption of exploratory talks, which are informal talks, they are not negotiations, but it set a specific framework for them to be able to resume.

The framework was very clear: There should be no research activity within the Greek EEZ and in accordance with the directions given by the European Council itself, to resume talks essentially where we left off in March 2016, that is to make progress on the issue of the delimitation of the EEZ and the Continental Shelf in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean. We always have an honest, constructive attitude towards the exploratory talks.

We hope that Turkey wants this normalization not only with Greece, but also with Europe. Of course, Ankara should also prove in practice that it wants a sincere and constructive dialogue.

At the moment, unfortunately, by fault on its part, we have a “dialogue of the deaf”. Regarding the possibility of having recourse to the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Greece’s firm position is that we can discuss the Continental Shelf and the Exclusive Economic Zone. We do not discuss anything else. If and when there are convergences, then at a later stage there will be either a negotiation or an agreement to refer the matter to The Hague. That was the framework set and that continues to be. It is clear, it is well defined.