Interview of Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs K. Fragogiannis on MEGA TV with journalists I. Chasapopoulos, B. Papanagiotou and A. Voulgaris (01.06.2021)

JOURNALIST: You met with your Turkish counterpart in Kavala, after having done a lot of preparation work. You discussed what we call “low policy” issues, issues that unlike the continental shelf and territorial waters are not on the Ministers’ agenda. Tell us about your contacts.

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: This is what always happens when there are disputes, which essentially fall under two categories: the important and sometimes insurmountable ones and the ones that can be dealt with. I think it helps a lot to get to the minor issues, like the issues of economic cooperation, energy, communication, tourism and come up with solutions, thus creating an environment, a space for diplomacy to expand on the most important issues. So, what we have been doing for a long time with my colleagues in the Ministry, in cooperation with line ministries but also with the Turks, is to list certain issues that have been pending for years, some of them even for 17 years.

JOURNALIST: Mr. Fragogiannis, will you name these issues?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: There are seven issues related to economic and business cooperation, two on technology, one on energy, one on tourism, there are three issues related to transport and telecommunications and one each on shipping, education, social security, health and the environment.

JOURNALIST: For example, are we going to have tourist exchanges? Why is the issue on tourism important?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: The issue concerns the way Greek citizens can visit Turkey and at the same time Turkish citizens can visit Greece. In addition to resolving specific issues, you create an environment, a space, a climate in which good brings good, you can communicate. When you create a level of trust and understanding then you can move to the next step and discuss issues that may be very important.

JOURNALIST: Tell us, did your Turkish counterpart have a positive disposition; did he want these issues to be resolved?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: Both sides demonstrated a positive attitude. There was very good preparation from them and us. We submitted 15 issues three months ago, they submitted eight issues and at the last minute we added two more. At the same time we set up internal working groups in our respective ministries in order to be prepared. We will meet again in 16-17 days to examine the progress on the specific issues and after a month we will meet again, so we hope to complete our work in July.

JOURNALIST: It is nice to have cooperation between two countries and in fact between two neighbouring countries. But how is it possible to cooperate if the more important issues are not overcome (for example, Turkey is constantly sending ships near Kastellorizo, Mr.  Çavuşoğlu, in an interview in the newspaper “TO VIMA” said that they do not agree with the extension of Greece’s territorial waters to 12 miles, etc)

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: I have two answers to this. Why a drawn-out issue such as the customs office and the bridge at Kipi, Evros, is related to other issues? And more importantly, if there is a chance to agree on important issues, it becomes bigger when we agree on other minor issues. So, what we are trying to do is to create a framework to assist diplomacy.

JOURNALIST: With regard to tourism, mutual recognition of vaccination certificates is required. Given that various vaccines have been used in Turkey, some of them not approved in the EU, can a solution be found, a common ground?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: Regarding the mutual recognition of certificates, I can say that there are experts from both governments who examine the types of vaccines and the way this recognition will be done. What we are promoting is mutual good will. I think all specific issues will be resolved within the next 2-3 days.

JOURNALIST: Are we going to resolve the issue on our own, or will we ask for Europe’s assistance?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: I don’t think we will ask for Europe’s assistance, I think the two teams are already in talks on the issue.

JOURNALIST: No one believes that all issues can be resolved with a nice atmosphere during a nice visit. Everyone understands that Turkey, ahead of the meeting between Erdogan and Biden and the EU Summit, needs to project a different image. I have the feeling that Turkey, luckily, has changed its stance. Are we creating excessive expectations that issues that have been raised openly, such as casus belli and the issues of the minority and demilitarization can be resolved? Are we raising the bar too high?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: Issues cannot be resolved overnight. It takes careful preparation and a lot of work. As Mr. Dendias stated yesterday, we may have differences but this does not deprive us the possibility of being able to establish channels of communication, of building bridges on many levels and of trying to create a framework so that we can finally come to an understanding. Turkey is our neighbor, whether we like it or not, it has a large economy and we want to communicate with them and so do they. All that you have mentioned has a great deal of truth and we may face expectations that we will try to meet. It is not only about our expectations, but also theirs. It is about their plans and our plans. What we do in economic diplomacy is establish a framework, an incubator if you may, in which to create an environment for other issues to mature.

JOURNALIST: I cannot refrain from asking you about Astypalea. Give us some insight; we know that you are preparing a major event on the island, an event the Prime Minister will also attend. What is going on there?

K. FRAGOGIANNIS: The Green Astypalea program is being implemented. We are going to show all that has been achieved. It is a program scheduled to last five years. Its four pillars are electromobility and chargers, the replacement of diesel motors with hybrid energy sources, public transportation on demand, meaning you can call a bus 24 hours a day from where you are, to take you where you want to and, finally, autonomous driving.

So, tomorrow we are going to Astypalea together with the Prime Minister to launch this program. We will present the Prime Minister and the other Ministers and guests with the progress we have made during the past seven months, as well as what will happen next.

It is in fact a very innovative program that has caught the attention of people from around the world, and my motto to describe it is: “A photo from the future, before the future, today”. Through this minor program Greece establishes itself as a country where one can invest, discuss, communicate and find a suitable environment to realize his plans.

The major difficulty of this program is the coordination of five Ministries, the Municipality of Astypalea, the Region of South Aegean and one colossal company. At the Ministry of Foreign Affairs we are accustomed to coordinating. We are not a “productive” Ministry you know. Much of the work for this program was done by the Ministry of the Environment, Energy and Climate Change and the Ministry of Infrastructure and Transport. So, we are coordinating the effort in order to arrive at results.