Minister of Foreign Affairs Nikos Dendias’ interview with “Real News” newspaper and journalist Giorgos Siadimas (30.10.2022)

JOURNALIST:  Turks constantly provoke. Are you worried about a “hot incident” or a provocation on their part? Could they remain in words?

N. DENDIAS: Turkey presents positions that reflect an unprecedented escalation of revisionism and nationalist rhetoric on an almost daily basis. Our neighbouring country continues to display unlawful conduct systematically.

In this context, I believe that your question and your concern about the possibility of a “hot” incident, a deliberate provocation, or even an “accident”, which could take on unforeseeable dimensions under tense circumstances is reasonable.

All the more so, given that we do not expect this extreme rhetoric to subside in the run-up to Turkey’s elections.

On the contrary, our assessment is that it could escalate. But let’s not oversimplify. We should not view Turkey’s stance solely in a narrow, Greek-centric light. That way the bigger picture is missed.

At the moment, Turkey has several fronts open.

First of all, there’s the situation in Syria, which, while no longer a daily concern for international public opinion, remains a matter of the utmost importance and concern for Turkey. Also, the war in Ukraine has created new “temptations” for Turkey, especially in its attempt to appear as a mediator between the warring sides.

It did, however, bring to the surface the inherent contradictions in its foreign policy. A NATO member that does not implement sanctions against Russia and at the same time, arms itself with Russian weapon systems. In addition to that, it demands that the US allow it to modernize its American aircraft. Of course, I am referring to the F-16s, an issue that is still pending.

For these reasons, our government, the Mitsotakis government, examines Turkish conduct and then takes action, taking all factors into consideration.

I would like to recall that the government does not simply react to Turkish policy, but also takes initiative, and develops relations with traditional and new partners. At the same time, Greece shields itself against this threat.

As I pointed out during my French counterpart’s visit to Athens, “dailikia” (bullying) and threats do not intimidate us.

JOURNALIST: In the case of an incident, will our allies stand with us or will we be on our own?

N. DENDIAS: Mr. Siadimas, allow me to make two observations. Firstly, as the Russian invasion of Ukraine has emphatically demonstrated, revisionism and attempts at changing borders by force are internationally condemned. They contravene fundamental rules of International Law, which is the “bible” of our foreign policy.

One of the main reasons I travelled to Kyiv in the midst of shelling was precisely to highlight the similarities between Russian policy towards Ukraine, which resulted in the invasion, and Turkey’s policy towards us. To emphasize that the Turkish threat is real and should not be underestimated by our Western partners.

There is, however, a significant difference between Greece and Ukraine. Greece is powerful and is also protected by three mutual assistance agreements in the event of an attack. The oldest one is provided for in the Treaty on European Union and is an obligation of all member states to assist a country under attack.  The other two are provided for in bilateral agreements that I have had the honour of signing with my counterparts of France and the United Arab Emirates.  We are also protected by a fourth agreement, the oldest of all, the NATO Treaty.  Of course, it does not cover us from the possibility of an attack by Turkey, but it is clear that the other allies, starting with our strategic partner, the United States, will do everything possible to ensure that NATO’s cohesion is maintained. Given the current situation in Ukraine, this might now be more imperative than ever.

The second observation is about the evolving relations with our partners. In fact, I notice a reshaping of stances as a result of our constant effort and presentation of our positions, as well as of our highlighting the challenges we face.

Let me give you an example. I have met my German counterpart, Ms. Baerbock, three times in the last five months. It is now possible to discern an understanding of the German side regarding what Greece is facing in the Eastern Mediterranean. This shift did not occur by itself. It is the result of continuous engagement on our part over the last few years, even before the German elections took place. This policy is bearing fruit. Therefore, the answer to the question of whether we are ultimately alone is unequivocally negative. Of course, a country must be able to face up to challenges relying on its own forces, with appropriate preparation at all levels, and in all situations. And this is exactly what Greece has been doing for the past three years under the current government.

JOURNALIST: Is there room for dialogue with Ankara? The Turks continued their provocations following the recent meeting of Defence Ministers Nikos Panagiotopoulos and Hulusi Akar.

N. DENDIAS: Constructive dialogue with Turkey is always desirable, but it can be achieved under one inviolable condition: respect for International Law. Today, all the relations that our country is building with partners and allies are relations that are based on International Law. We wish that this would be the case with Turkey as well. But there is a significant difference between maintaining channels of communication and engaging in dialogue. It is necessary to keep channels of communication open with the Turkish side, and the recent meeting between the two Defence Ministers is part of that. For my part, I maintain social contact with my Turkish counterpart, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and communication is always possible if necessary. This, however, is not sufficient for a meaningful and effective dialogue. The problem is that the Turkish side, for reasons of its own doing, has stopped all institutionalized contacts at all levels.

JOURNALIST: When should the territorial waters be extended from 6 to 12 nautical miles south of Crete? Is it finally time?

N. DENDIAS: The answer to this question will be the same, no matter how many times it is asked. The right to extend the territorial waters to 12 nautical miles, as defined in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), constitutes a unilateral, non-negotiable right of our country. It is an inalienable right of Greece that exists and will continue to exist in perpetuity because it is enshrined in International Law. And, of course, the government in office at any given time will decide when, where, and how to exercise it, guided solely by how to best protect and totally safeguard our national interest. And I am confident that the country’s political forces fully understand this and will demonstrate the necessary maturity to ensure that this issue of major national importance does not get downgraded to an object of controversy in the midst of the already-emerging-pre-election climate. Under no circumstances should these issues be the subject of political and petty partisan confrontation.

JOURNALIST: Turkey remains adamant about upgrading the F-16s. Can the Americans finally agree? What would this mean for our country?

N. DENDIAS: The government’s primary duty is to strengthen our country’s deterrent capability. We have been doing this for the last three years to the extent the existing fiscal capabilities have allowed. We have done everything possible to ensure that Greece has the most powerful deterrent on the ground.

Regarding the F-16s upgrade that Turkey is asking, purchasing any weapon system from the United States is a lengthy and complicated process that requires congressional approval. Nobody can currently predict when or on what terms this complex negotiation will be concluded.

As the Prime Minister emphasized in his speech to Congress, it is appropriate to take into account the risk of instability in NATO’s south-eastern flank when making decisions on the supply of military equipment to the region, especially at a time when unity in the Alliance is necessary vis-à-vis Russia. We face serious provocations and unprecedented threats against the sovereignty of Greece and especially against our islands. And the same applies in relation to Cyprus. Revisionism threatens regional stability. This has been and remains our position.

JOURNALIST: When will you send the letter in response to Turkey’s recent letter to the United Nations?

N. DENDIAS: Turkey’s recent letter is nothing more than a repetition ad nauseam of its well-known unilateral claims. We are witnessing an agonizing attempt by our neighbour to provide a “legal” disguise to a jumble of arbitrary interpretations, unsubstantiated allegations, and unfounded arguments that have no legal basis whatsoever and, in fact, are in complete contradiction with the fundamental rules of International Law. It is, at the end of the day, a monument to the distortion of reality. We reject Turkey’s claims in their entirety. We have already thoroughly laid out our positions and arguments in letters sent to the UN Secretary-General.

Allow me at this point to make an important clarification. The letters from the Turkish side are not addressed to Greece, but to the UN Secretary-General. So, there is no question of a “reply”. Of course, we will present our positions again at a time we deem most appropriate for the promotion of our interests.

JOURNALIST: Can our country’s agreement with Egypt outweigh the Turkish-Libyan agreement?

N. DENDIAS: The Exclusive Economic Zone delimitation agreement between our country and Egypt safeguards the sovereign rights of both countries. More importantly, it is in full compliance with the requirements of International Law and in particular the International Law of the Sea, which, as is well known, is not the case with the Turkish-Libyan “memorandum”, which is illegal, null and void, legally invalid, and also constitutes a geographical paradox.  Therefore, there is no question of ‘outweighing’, as something null and void and illegal cannot de facto outweigh or even approach something legal and valid.

Allow me to add that regarding Libya we are in full agreement with Egypt, as well as with many other countries. Our shared strategic goal is a stable, prosperous, and peaceful Libya, which in turn can contribute to the consolidation of stability in the Eastern Mediterranean. And not to foment tensions inside Libya, with further “agreements” by a government that has no popular mandate. “Agreements” that are clearly the result of Turkish blackmail on a government that has lost its legitimacy. In direct coordination with Egypt, we denounced the recent signing of a “memorandum of understanding” between the Tripoli government and Turkey. Similarly, and directly, it was denounced by the EU, the US, Cyprus, France, Germany, Italy, and many other countries.

Let me say one last thing: as evidenced by my recent visit to Cairo and at every opportunity, our relations with our friend Egypt are more than strategic. We rely on Egypt’s support, not just in relation to Libya, and we are committed to supporting Egypt both bilaterally and within the EU.