Minister of Foreign Affairs Nikos Dendias’ interview with “Eleftheros Typos” newspaper and journalist Apostolos Chondropoulos (13.11.2022)

JOURNALIST: Minister, you recently stated that the Turkish side is attempting to intimidate Greek society and the Government.  How do Greece and the EU respond?

N. DENDIAS: You will allow me to add that this is not just an attempt to intimidate Greek society and the Government, but, in essence, an attempt to shape and impose, from the Turkish side, a new “model” of bilateral and regional relations. This “model”, however, is incompatible with any notion of good neighbourliness and respect for the fundamental principles of International Law.

In the face of this escalating threat, our country has chosen to respond calmly and decisively, with substantiated arguments based on International Law and the International Law of the Sea.

I reiterate that our country’s national sovereignty and territorial integrity are not up for debate and are not questioned in any way. Against the constant attempts by the Turkish side to reverse reality, Greece is shielding itself, diplomatically and defensively.
I’d also like to emphasize that our partners and allies have consistently expressed their full support for Greece’s positions.

In particular, within the EU, solidarity is displayed in our country in the face of Turkish aggression.

At the same time, at the bilateral level, both in cooperation with our partners in the EU and with other countries, we see that Greek positions are accepted. The most recent example is Serbia, whose new Foreign Minister, Ivica Dačić visited Greece on his first official visit abroad. The significance of Serbia’s support is not only due to the fact that it is a traditional friend of Greece. Yugoslavia was a signatory to the Treaty of Lausanne, the Montreux Convention, as well as the Treaty of Paris.

JOURNALIST: How concerned are you that this provocative conduct – to the extent that it may be linked to the internal situation in Turkey itself – will escalate further in the run-up to the elections to be held in the neighboring country in 2023? In such a climate of intensifying provocative conduct and revisionism from the part of Ankara, is it realistic to expect that there can be a possibility for constructive and meaningful dialogue?

N. DENDIAS: Our neighbor’s provocative conduct, as evidenced both rhetorically and through specific actions, I fear, is not a conjunctural phenomenon that can be explained simply by the Turkish leadership’s electoral needs.

On the contrary, it seems to be a structural feature of current Turkish foreign policy, which consistently serves its revisionist narrative.

Let’s hope, of course, that it turns out to have been only an electoral choice.

Of course, the fact that our neighboring country is heading towards a crucial election in the coming months creates conditions that are likely to favor further escalation.

In any case, constructive and meaningful dialogue cannot take place in the toxic environment created by Turkish provocative conduct.

Constructive dialogue can take place only on the basis of equality and International Law. Not based on power and personal insults. Not by challenging sovereignty and violating sovereign rights. Not by engaging in “tsaboukades” and “dailikia” (bullying), to use two words of Turkish origin.

JOURNALIST: In addition to condemning the illegal Turkish-Libyan “memorandum” in all fora, the country’s intention, as stated by the Prime Minister, is an overall open-up to Libya in order to delimitate maritime zones. Should we expect any initiatives in this direction?

N. DENDIAS: Mr. Chondropoulos, as the Prime Minister recently stated, Libya, due to its geographical proximity, could be a natural interlocutor of ours.

Greece always looks forward to engaging in a constructive dialogue with third countries on the basis of International Law and especially the International Law of the Sea, all the more so when it comes to countries in our wider neighborhood.

Following the two EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) delimitation agreements we signed in 2020 with Egypt and Italy, Libya is now located between two perfectly legal delimitations.

We hope that all parties in Libya will understand that the only condition for delimitation of the EEZ is adherence to the International Law of the Sea.

And that the Libyan government that emerges from the elections will come and engage in a discussion with us in order to legally complete this delimitation.

This is a delimitation that will serve the interests of both our countries and will further promote the consolidation of stability in the Mediterranean.

Because, as we have already underlined, Greece shares a common strategic goal for Libya with many allies and partners both inside and outside the EU.

This goal is a peaceful country that will serve as a pole of stability and prosperity for the entire Eastern Mediterranean.

Of course, as you realize, in order for these negotiations with the Libyan side to take place, an indispensable condition is that there must be a Libyan government having a mandate to bind the country internationally, which is not the case today.

For this to happen, Libya should, on the one hand, proceed, through democratic processes, to the election of a new government and, on the other hand, pave the way for the removal of foreign forces and mercenaries operating on Libyan territory, taking advantage of civil conflicts of previous years.

JOURNALIST: What is your assessment of the developments in the war in Ukraine, following your recent visit to Kyiv? What was the significance of this visit and how feasible do you think it is to open a “window” for peace talks, considering the current circumstances?

N. DENDIAS: I would say that any assessment under the current circumstances is risky. Russia is very likely to continue the war in Ukraine in the coming months, using winter as its own “weapon” against the West because of the rise in energy prices. Everyone hopes that Russia will refrain from escalating its actions further, both diplomatically and militarily, and from resorting to other extreme solutions.

My visit to Kyiv was intended to demonstrate that, at a time when International Law and its fundamental principles and values are being brutally violated, Greece insists on strict adherence to them as a counterweight to any tendency towards revisionism and expansionism.

The European Union and the West, in general, should make it clear that they will continue their unwavering support for the independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders, as well as the independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of all other states in the world facing similar threats.

My visit to Kyiv was also intended to convey a clear message regarding the direct threats that Greece faces from its largest neighbor to the east.

And that the West should in no way underestimate this threat.

JOURNALIST: The most serious issue that has arisen as a result of this war for Greek society is rising prices for which measures are taken at the national level to support households and businesses. However, European intervention seems to be delayed due to different approaches. Are you worried that if this trend continues, it may cause a blow to the cohesion of the EU, but also fuel – possibly in our country as well – a populist trend that has already been reflected in the electoral rise of far-right forces in Europe?

N. DENDIAS: Your question raises a real problem. Although the Greek government has demonstrated the necessary reflexes in crisis management, the European Union is still delaying the implementation of measures required to deal with another crisis – in this case, the energy crisis. The rise of populism and the far right is undoubtedly alarming for Europe as a whole and poses a medium-term threat to its cohesion. I hope, however, that we will not see a repeat of that scene in our country, because the memories of the previous decade’s upsurge of these phenomena as well as the well-known consequences of the “squares of the indignant” are still fresh. Of course, there is no reason for complacency. For its part, the Greek government should continue to prioritize social cohesion and the lowest-income groups among its citizens as it does now.

Furthermore, I’d like to emphasize, as I do on every occasion, that New Democracy is a genuinely popular party.

JOURNALIST: Political tension is rising sharply in the country in the wake of a recent report that named you as one of the politicians under surveillance. What do you think will shape the political climate in which the country appears to be heading toward the 2023 elections?

N. DENDIAS: What I am concerned about and what I do not want is the creation of a toxic political climate in all areas, which will also affect foreign policy and national defense, at a particularly critical juncture. It is true that so far, and despite individual disagreements, we have succeeded in keeping the political confrontation in these areas within limits. I hope that even this year when elections will be held in any case, basic prudence will prevail.

JOURNALIST: In the run-up to the elections, you should also assess your track record. What does that entail in your own field and what do you see as the major challenges for the country’s foreign policy in the coming years?

N. DENDIAS: Certainly, there has been no shortage of challenges that we have had to face during my three and a half years at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Particularly from the neighboring country of Turkey.

In a broader sense, pivotal events, such as the Russian invasion of Ukraine, are rebalancing the world system, thus affecting our immediate neighborhood, so both vigilance and new, proactive planning are required on our part.

However, through a series of steps taken over the last three years, we have established a solid foundation for facing any future challenges with confidence.

A foundation built on the methodical expansion of alliances and partnerships throughout the world. By way of example, I will mention the strategic cooperation agreements signed during my tenure with the US, France, and the UAE – the latter two of which include a defense assistance clause. The agreements we signed with Italy and Egypt on the delimitation of our EEZs, on the basis of International Law, and the agreement with Albania to refer the issue of maritime delimitation between us to the International Court of Justice in the Hague.

The upgrading of relations and close coordination at many levels with countries in our wider neighborhood (Cyprus, Egypt, Israel) through bilateral or multilateral formats.

As well as the opening up to other countries of the Arab world, the Gulf and the Maghreb, where Greece used to have traditional relations that had gradually faded.

But also, the opening of communication and cooperation channels with a number of countries in Africa and Asia. The promotion of our country’s candidacy for the UN Security Council for the 2025-26 term, for the Human Rights Council for the 2028-30 term, and for the Presidency of the General Assembly in 2035.

At this point, I’d like to emphasize the extension of our territorial waters in the Ionian Sea from 6 to 12 nautical miles, which, for the first time since 1947, extends the area of national sovereignty by more than 13,000 square kilometers.

Of course, we fully retain our right, as explicitly stipulated in UNCLOS, to extend our territorial waters wherever and whenever we believe that our national interests are served.

To conclude, let me make one final point.

In addition to the achievements in foreign policy in the narrow sense, I’d like to refer to the changes we’re promoting in the structure and services of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs itself. The aim is to transform it into a modern structure capable of meeting the challenges that arise in an ever-changing landscape of international relations, as well as of serving and promoting the country’s positions abroad with confidence.