JOURNALIST: Ladies and gentlemen, we are with Mr. Nikos Dendias at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and this is the ACTION 24 prime-time newscast. Mr. Dendias, thank you very much for having us in your office.
N. DENDIAS: Thank you for the opportunity. Actually, this is not my office, it’s the office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Greece.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Dendias, you’ve just returned from the NATO Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Brussels. We noticed a particularly warm atmosphere between you and your Turkish counterpart.
We noticed your brief conversation in front of the cameras and it appears that we are “sailing in calm waters” in the Aegean after the diplomacy of the earthquakes.
How did we get to this point?
N. DENDIAS: There was a shift in the Turkish attitude, immediately following my visit to Antakya, just a few days after the devastating earthquakes in Türkiye.
Let me give you a simple example. Previously, there were overflights, violations of airspace, and territorial waters on a daily basis. All this time, since that day, no violation has been recorded.
What’s more, Turkish flight activity in the Aegean is nonexistent. In general, there’s been a complete shift in the Turkish attitude. There has been a significant shift in its rhetoric as well.
No insults, no threats, or anything else is being hurled against Greece. Greece on its part has always stated that if the climate is right, it is willing to engage in dialogue and act accordingly.
That’s exactly what’s happening.
JOURNALIST: Was it the internationalization of the Turkish provocations on the part of Greece or was it possibly our allies, as well as the upgrading of relations with the United States that have helped us “sail in calm waters”?
N. DENDIAS: First and foremost, I’d like to note that Türkiye, with this behavior, has recognized that Greece, in a time of need of the Turkish society, chose to stand by the Turkish people without asking for any geopolitical quid pro quo and without taking into account all the precedents. I believe that this was appreciated by the Turkish leadership.
Aside from that, in the broader context of relations, of course, Greece has made efforts over the years to provide a clear picture to the international community, our allies, our friends, and those who wished to listen to us about the cause and nature of our differences with Türkiye.
I believe that this effort has borne fruit. Now to what extent the Turkish leadership has taken this into account, I cannot tell.
JOURNALIST: The question is whether we can trust this shift by Türkiye. You also mentioned several incidents that we had before the earthquakes.
I will highlight the kind of rhetoric that has been developed on the Turkish side claiming that they will throw the Greeks into the sea. We also heard them saying that “We will come suddenly one night”. We saw maps of Greek islands in the Turkish media almost on a daily basis.
So, is trust possible at this time?
N. DENDIAS: Trust is built over time. But I cannot but underline that the Greek side has by all means welcomed this significant shift.
Again, it was not the Greek side that had expressed threats or claims.
Therefore, when we see Türkiye abandoning the previous paradigm and creating a new paradigm of attempting friendly relations with all the countries in the region including Greece, we want to believe it is sincere.
We are not naive if you ask me. As I have stated repeatedly, everything will be determined after the Turkish elections. Then we will see what the intentions of the Turkish government that will emerge from the Turkish people’s verdict are and how we could proceed.
But historically or nationally speaking, Greece has always emphasized that if Türkiye extends a hand of friendship to Greece, Greece will respond.
JOURNALIST: Since you mentioned the Turkish elections, they will be held in roughly 45 days. We are keeping a close eye on developments in Türkiye, particularly following the formation of the coalition of opposition parties.
I’d like to ask you what it would mean for Greece if the Turkish people ultimately chose to remove Erdogan from power. Considering how the Turkish President has been acting over the years, do you think that if the opposition eventually wins, our country may find itself in uncharted waters?
N. DENDIAS: I’ll explain. First of all, we, the Greek government, and each of us as citizens and human beings are entitled to our own thoughts, preferences, dislikes, and sympathies. However, the Greek government, and especially the Minister of Foreign Affairs, has no right to express an opinion on the elections in a neighboring country.
Greece evaluates foreign governments based on what they say and what they do. As far as the Turkish opposition is concerned, it has stated things that are possibly even worse than what President Erdogan has said.
Remember that when President Erdogan said something about the islands, the opposition did not respond with “What are you saying?”. They told him that what he was saying was right but he didn’t do anything.
Consequently, we have no illusions. We are well aware of what has been said, but, again, elections may always provide a fresh start. Greece is ready, I reiterate, absolutely ready to respond to a hand of friendship extended from the opposite side of the Aegean.
JOURNALIST: Before we turn to the elections in Türkiye, I’d like to ask you if in the meantime there might be a meeting with Mr. Çavuşoğlu, following the brief conversation you had in Brussels.
N. DENDIAS: If deemed necessary, since the channels of communication are completely open at the moment. Of course, we are in the run-up to the elections, so now is not the time for a broad discussion. This is something that will follow the verdict of both countries’ societies.
But what is important is that at the moment these channels of communication exist and they can allow our countries to move towards the elections “sailing in calm waters”, as you rightly put it previously. Something that, to be honest, has been an absolute necessity for some months now. We were looking for ways of achieving this and we were very concerned about the time between the possible two rounds of elections in Greece.
JOURNALIST: Is there the so-called “red telephone line” between you and Mr. Çavuşoğlu, as we refer to it? In other words, can Nikos Dendias pick up the phone and call Mr. Çavuşoğlu in case anything happens or if he has any concerns?
N. DENDIAS: It is not even red; it is my mobile phone. We have such a relationship that enables me to call him at any time and I am confident that he will respond immediately. After all, it has occurred.
JOURNALIST: Has it happened recently and after the earthquakes?
N. DENDIAS: Look, I want to be honest. I have always kept in touch with Mr. Çavuşoğlu. I have not hidden from Greek society that I have known him for 17 years and I know him well. So, there has always been a possibility of communication.
But, of course, Mr. Çavuşoğlu is a member of the Turkish government and during a certain period of time – actually, a long one- the orders from the Head of State were that no communication should take place.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Dendias, you’ve been serving as Minister of Foreign Affairs for four years now…
N. DENDIAS: Almost.
JOURNALIST: Almost four years as Minister of Foreign Affairs.
N. DENDIAS: It’s a long time.
JOURNALIST: What was the most difficult moment you have faced? What was the moment when we might have been close to a “hot incident”, for example, with Türkiye?
N. DENDIAS: The summer of 2020 was too difficult. It was very, very difficult for all Greeks, for our Armed Forces, for their leadership, and it was extremely difficult for me as well.
There’s no point in recalling incidents or revealing incidents because some are known, and some are not, but the truth is that there were times when we came very close to a point of no return, let’s say.
Nonetheless, thanks to both sides’ wise handling of the situation, the worst was avoided and we are where we are today.
I believe what’s very important is that we do not return to that period. To the extent possible, I feel it’s preferable for everyone to forget about it.
JOURNALIST: The summer of 2020 was a difficult one.
N. DENDIAS: It was a very difficult period.
JOURNALIST: A very difficult summer.
N. DENDIAS: An extremely difficult summer.
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JOURNALIST: I’ve heard the Prime Minister speak about the so-called “deep state” many times. I wonder if any initiatives should have been taken in the last four years to fight this big monster known as the “deep state” in our country. That’s why I asked.
N. DENDIAS: {…} If you ask me about this specific Ministry, because that’s what I’m accountable for, I can tell you that we have made an enormous effort to completely change the nature and function of this Ministry. That will take three more years.
Could we have done it faster? I’m afraid to say not really. Why? Because a very large part of that effort required European funding, which was not in this Ministry’s “DNA”.
This is the first time that the Ministry has absorbed a lot of European funds in an attempt to change its very nature and the way it serves Greek society and its interests.
It is attempting to integrate economic diplomacy, alter the way the Services operate, digitize them all, and have a real-time full understanding of all data.
It has already started strategic planning in order to provide the country with a long-term horizon.
All of this requires funding, so it’s difficult to say it could have been done much faster. Yet, there’s always room for improvement and I do not claim that we have been flawless. But I do claim that I have a good track record to present to Greek society and tell them that an honest effort has been made here.
JOURNALIST: Concluding Mr. Dendias, you said that it takes three more years to implement the project -at least as you envision it- in this…
N. DENDIAS: In this Ministry.
JOURNALIST: So, if New Democracy wins, will we find you back in this office where we are visiting you today?
N. DENDIAS: This concerns the Prime Minister. As I previously told you, this is not my office; it is the office of the country’s Minister of Foreign Affairs.
JOURNALIST: So, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, as you have it in your mind, of how Greek diplomacy should move forward, come full circle? I am speaking from your personal point of view.
So, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, have you not, in your perspective, come full circle in terms of how Greek diplomacy should proceed? As regards your personal point of view, I mean.
N. DENDIAS: Greek foreign policy has specific challenges to which it must respond following the elections. One is regarding relations with Türkiye, and the other concerns the completion of the campaign for the UN Security Council. We are very close now.
There are two more campaigns: one concerning the Human Rights Council, and the other the Presidency of the United Nations General Assembly. There’s also the challenge of communicating with countries and areas, geographical areas, with which we have not had time to do so.
I refer to a part of the Pacific, Australia, Indonesia, New Zealand, smaller countries in the region, the Philippines, and a part of Africa, including East Africa, since we’ve already made a lot of progress in West Africa.
These are the steps that must be taken to create a holistic approach and a holistic view of the country’s foreign policy. So that we should not be trapped in Greek-Turkish relations forever.
And we also have a very important role to play in the Balkans, in the Belgrade-Pristina Dialogue, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, and in Montenegro’s new reality. These are all challenges that the country will face. Who will handle them though is up to the Prime Minister, who will be elected by the Greek people.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Dendias, thank you very much for receiving us today in your office, in the Minister’s office, here in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Thank you very much for being on the Action 24 prime-time newscast.
N. DENDIAS: Thank you very much. I wish you well.